Four Years Strong: Our Co-founders Reflect!
Happy 4th birthday to us 🥳
In honour of Friendzone’s fourth anniversary, our co-founders Grace, Tham and Valencia sat down to reflect on the highs, lows and lessons along the way. Keep reading for the full transcript of their convo!
Our co-founders (from left to right) - Tham, Valencia and Grace!
Grace:
To open - I don't think that I ever imagined us being here today in this particular state of a company with full timers? I think that's really incredible. That's really cool.
Looking back from where we first started, what have been some of the biggest surprises and highlights?
For me - when we first started, running a company together was never on the radar of stuff I envisioned. The idea of scaling it was not out the question but that we registered a company? and that we have staff? I don't even know what I imagined Friendzone being... maybe a voluntary thing? I never thought it would become a main thing. That's was surprising for me.
Valencia:
When you asked that question, what came to mind was when Tham quit his job. That was a big surprise to me.
Tham:
You stole my answer, now I have nothing to say.
V: Yeah, and the second thing was probably disruption of COVID and going online. I never imagined it going online. That was a big part of scaling. And the third was the REACH contract - that was the biggest and one of the best surprises, because it allowed us to really hire people. Okay, those are my three points. Now, Tham, you cannot repeat points.
T: I can't not repeat right, because it's my own story. I think when we started I never thought I’d quit my job because my job was something that was quite fulfilling, and Friendzone was something that we were just doing on the side. I think Grace asked me before if I would consider. Grace was the first person who suggested leaving our jobs because if there is a chance to have a very big contract, so there was some hint of it. Then, I was only one year into my job. I was not prepared to leave my job. It was something so fun. So yeah, that was a surprise - that I left my job to do this. Partially because of COVID. Without COVID, it's not possible. I think it's quite difficult for people to notice this work. So I left my job also because of COVID, it's kind of intertwined but that's the most surprising thing. I mean, being an entrepreneur, like I hate doing business. Yeah, I hate capitalism and businesses. So like, I would not have ever seen myself being part of starting a business or even like being part of a business since I was from the public sector.
G: Yeah, I think it's cool 'cause I mean, none of us have a business background? You (Valencia) have an accounting background, but that's also not really entrepreneurship. None of us have a business entrepreneurial background. So I think that's cool cause we came into this with the social mission and then we ended up running a company. That's pretty wild.
Other milestones I would say are having performance conversations and having offering-job conversations. I think that is a really big deal. And those have been the most - the word that comes to mind is easy. They have been so rewarding. What's really cool is to be able to create a work environment for people where they feel content with their work. They enjoy their work, they feel the work is purposeful, and that it's not too stressful that they have time for other things in their life. I think that to me is a highlight.
I remember someone said to me before that is very rewarding to give people employment, and I never understood that. But now I do. That we give people employment and our work culture enables them to have a life outside of work. That they find work fulfilling, are contributing skillfully based on their own talents and strengths to the mission. But then they also have energy and time to pursue things they enjoy outside of work. Like some people just have jobs which are so stressful that they have no time for anything in their life, or they're just so depressed or stressed about work. So that's been a highlight, to understand that concept and how meaningful it is to give employment to people.
I guess that's what’s been surprising also, because I guess never envisioned that I would be an employer! And we employ our friends! I think something that was cool was I remember, probably like, two years before Veena (our copywriter) joined full time, there was this one time we were standing at a bus stop and I remember telling her like wow, it would be really cool if you come and work full-time for Friendzone. And then it happened many years later.
What have been some of your fun-nest moments in Friendzone?
I can go first while ya'll think.
I guess Friendzone Friendzone (our bimonthly half-day team bonding/learning sessions) has been fun. The time that we spend together just hanging out and laughing. And just the creativity that comes out of it. The people in the team are very fun so it's very easy to joke around.
I think another funny moment I remember was when we were doing our online events - the days when we would schedule four or five events in one day. On hindsight, that was crazy. We'd have five events in one day, and we were just so enthusiastic about it! We were really crazy. We were so enthusiastic to be doing so many sessions and we were just so passionate.
V: We thought we could do it, so we did it.
G: The funny moment I remember about the online events was going out into the living room in between sessions. My mom asked me, "Oh, where are you traveling to later?" and I'd be like, "Oh, yeah, just came from Jurong West, going to Ang Mo Kio later." Yeah, I thought that was quite funny.
V: For me, when we look at the past four years, it would be setting up for our in-person events in the past. Seeing the transformation of a void deck was always something fun to me. And seeing people's faces when they're like, “oh, wow, you've transformed the void deck”. Also, last year we had the retreat where we were all at Nanyang (our workspace). I don't see the team in person very often, except for recently when there are physical events. That was the first time I really saw most people in person. Seeing the energy of everyone was very heartwarming and very fun.
And maybe when we do weird things like we did a Channel 8 documentary, when I could only speak half Chinese and Tham had to speak for most of it, that was funny. And all the random pitches that we had in-between. Yeah, those were fun moments for me.
Valencia being interviewed for a Channel 8 documentary
T: I think most of the fun moments for me are hosting the events and setting up the event. I think last time when we used to have the void deck events we had to push Toyogo boxes with wheels on them because we used to store our logistics in boxes. Every time before the event we would call for help sometimes from neighbors or there would be some people who ask if they could offer any help and then we would have people shifting Toyogo boxes with wheels.
I mean that was kind of like, the kampung spirit kind of thing. I remember there was once we wheeled Toyogo boxes over a very long distance. I have no idea why. I think from Tampines, from someone's house, to the pavilion. I forgot why we were doing that but it was quite stupid. I mean, it's kind of like fun, kind of like the kampung spirit, and then some of the neighbors would also help to setup and then like, put up all the decorations and pack up after that. Everyone would stay for like an hour after that. Looking back it's quite inefficient, right? But I guess that's kind of like the fun of the kampung spirit. Yeah, so that's the fun part.
And hosting. I like to people-watch as a hobby. So hosting is fun for me.
G: I have two questions - you can think about your answers first. What has been your favourite story about Friendzone that you have heard? It could be a personal story of having my neighbours and how they made a difference in your life or like, an anecdotal story of someone else's experience at Friendzone that you've heard during impact gathering or asking people about their experiences.
T: I'm more pessimistic by nature. So I remember all the scary stories.
V: I have positive stories.
T: It's just what I tend to remember!
V: I have two. I think one is how when we first did an online Jurong West event. Within that same session, this guy invited everyone to his house to eat durian. It was so impromptu. Right after the session — when it was still ongoing. So we could see them gathered in the house online! To me is a very special story because we were so uncertain about online events and then something like this happened. They really seized the opportunity. There were like three couples (6 people) who went to his house to eat durians, which still impresses me to this day.
The other one is seeing the friendships that my sister still has with some neighbours. She still dances with someone she met at Friendzone Clementi (Feb 2019). They still sign up for classes and still dance. Sometimes she will Facetime her and then stuff it into my face. And then I'll say hi to her also- usually at night, when I'm about to sleep already. We also invited another neighbour to go on a cruise with us. I think that's quite special to have come out from a Friendzone event. The friendships that I see my sister have are special, and I believe with my optimism that these are just a small slice of the other friendships that exist in our Friendzone network.
T: Besides all the impact stuff that Valencia mentioned, last week, for the first time I experienced like, "Oh, finally, I know another young person in my block because of Friendzone." We haven't come to my neighborhood very often because it's Holland Village and it's very hard to draw the boundary. This neighbour attended Friendzone Queenstown. During an interview with her for Coco (community connector), I found out that she lived in my block. That was quite amazing because it was a Queenstown interview and my house is arguably not in Queenstown. And she lived in my block! So that was quite exciting because it's the first time that I got to know another young person in my block, which is what Friendzone is for, but I didn't get to experience it up until last week I had just finished up a Friendzone event and then I went home and I went down to go get dinner, she walked past me. I didn't see her, she saw me. It was at night, and I was on the phone. Then she saw me and called my name. And then we said hi. Her mother was beside her and asking her like, "Oh, how do you know this person?". I saw her trying to explain to her mother. I always say that I hope one day more people in the same block can hopefully know each other. Even just knowing each other's names is the first step. So that was one moment where I felt that oh, this is finally like, you know, I can experience the Friendzone spirit.
G: For me - wah very hard, so many. I guess the first one would be something that Veena recently reminded me of. At the last event Veena was table hosting at, her group struggled to answer the final question "What's been weighing on your mind that you would like my thoughts on?". So she shared the story that I shared with her last time of our very first Friendzone event, where there were these two guys in the same group and one of them asked, “what do you think about cheating?” And another guy in his group that he had never met before was able to give him a lot of good advice because the other guy had also been cheated on before. Yeah, so I think just that whole experience of not knowing who you're going to meet, plus, being vulnerable enough to share something so personal and then the serendipity of being able to be like, "Yeah, I've gone through that too. And I know how that feels like that sucks. And here's my own experience." That’s still very mind blowing to me.
Another one would be the idea of adding someone on Instagram that you've met at a Friendzone event and finding out that you have no mutual friends. I still find that very cool. Like "wow, I'm meeting someone outside of my social circle." I think that's success! Because that constantly reminds me of how Singapore is so much bigger than my imagination of it and there are just so many people out there that I don't know yet.
Third would be Felix (Grace's friend and neighbour Felix, a fellow entrepreneur). Talking to him about his journey starting his company gave me a role model for what working on Friendzone could be like. It was after his first Friendzone event and I jio-ed Marine Paraders to go climbing. We were on the bus together and I was asking him the story of how he started his company - which was that he and his co-founder were colleagues in a previous company and they had this business idea so they just started working on it outside of work hours until the company grew big enough for it to be sustainable enough for them to quit their full time jobs and run it. I think that model of like, "Oh, yeah, we can actually just work on Friendzone on the side until it becomes big enough one day that we can leave our full time jobs to do it." I feel like him sharing that story with me at the start of our Friendzone journey gave me a possibility for what working on Friendzone as a side project could be like. I just find that so significant, because I mean, he's probably the first entrepreneur I know personally. And he's my neighbor! And if I hadn't met him and I hadn't heard his entrepreneurship story, then maybe Friendzone wouldn't even be where it is right now. At the very pivotal, just starting phase, he shared this lifestyle idea with me. On hindsight, significant.
G: What have been some of the most significant moments that we've had as founders together?
I think for me, the night we did our first Friendzone founders' meeting where we talked about our feelings. I don't remember when we started it, but we answered the question of "How do you feel about the past month?". I remember that I was sitting on the kitchen floor having this call and I said l I felt guilty for not doing more of something. And then you [Tham] said you felt guilty for dropping the ball on something and then you [Valen] said that you felt guilty for not doing enough, and then we were all just telling each other that we don't need to feel guilty. I found that was so significant. Looking back, that's still one of my favourite maturing/ breakthrough moments in our relationship as co-founders. The fact that we have been able to - and since then we continue to - be able to share honestly about how we feel about things and have the opportunity to respond, and have that space to address each other's concerns. I think that is a very precious and a very beautiful thing that we share. It's one of the things I love about us the most.
Monthly co-founders’ meetings
V: I don't know if this is a specific milestone or highlight, but I think just like the small vulnerabilities and non-Friendzone things in our lives that we share with each other. I think that's a testament to the relationships that we have. It's not just a work-based thing.
I'm just trying to think of one turning point… It's just probably an accumulation of all the meetings we have, the dinners we have at random cafes and late, random hours of the night.
G: We have so many meetings though.
V: So many!
T: I remember this meeting where we were on the staircase, I think it was outside SOTA. We were just talking about the different ways that Friendzone can go in the future. I think in-person meetings are easier to remember, when we meet online they all blur together because there's no defining thing about them.
G: On the topic of places and memory - I remember we were somewhere around Tanjong Pagar. It was the one conversation where we decided for clarity that the three of us will be the leaders of this thing.
T: I think the most difficult conversation that founders have with each other is commitment. Like, how much do we want to commit to this project? And how long? When do we stop? Will this be something with no end? I mean, some of these questions we also have no real answer to but I think it's just talking about it once in a while. I think we had two conversations about "Oh, we are going to commit to this more seriously." Yeah. So that's the conversation that I remember from that Tanjong Pagar cafe.
More significant, would be the first ever trial that we ran. I think the trial was quite significant for me. The one where we invited our friends down to experience this, question this. Like, what were we doing? Are we really doing something interesting? It was the first time we saw something brought to life. Anything is just an idea until you can bring it to life. So, that was significant for me.
V: I remembered something fun for the earlier question. When we did the photo shoot for NVPC’s Valentines Day volunteering campaign. That was the first time I've seen all of us in makeup and posing. In terms of milestones, I think mulling over our biggest contract and realising how much it costs was a milestone to me. Just realising the sheer amount of resources that we needed. Like "Wow, we're gonna get this amount and we will be able to staff this size of a team to do this." Quite incredible.
Our founders featured as part of the @cityofgoodsg Valentines Day campaign - to encourage people to volunteer with their friends!
G: What are some challenges we've faced, or something that we disagreed on very strongly?
V: I remember one - when we first started pricing our services, we charged quite a fair bit, right? We went around to a few different community centres and all the doors were closed from their end. They were quite interested in us, but they just rejected us. That was quite challenging, and we disagreed on the amount to charge.
G: I feel like we've had more discouragement, but I can't really think of any significant challenges right now.
V: Discouragement but not challenges, yeah.
G: I feel like we have definitely faced a lot of challenges, like every setback, every meeting that yields no follow up. We've had so many of those but I don't think I particularly view them as challenges. I feel like the rejection thing is just part of the process. I feel like we've faced a lot of setbacks, and we've knocked on a lot of doors and tried a lot of different things.
V: Oh! You know that one weekend where there were three harassment cases? That was particularly discouraging for me. It made me feel very disappointed.
T: Oh, yeah, I thought of something that I disagreed on. There was this opportunity at the time to run a Friendzone event for this company. But a few days before the event, they sent us some very, very long contract and asked us to sign it quickly. And then it was very dubious because they wanted to retain the rights for the program for the entire universe, which apparently means that - our lawyer friend explained to us that it means that if aliens invade the earth, the aliens can also use your program for free. And we were only running that program for like, $700 or something. So do we really want aliens to own our program for $700?
V: Question of the day
T: Yeah, I think we had disagreements over that because that was a time when Friendzone was still starting up. I mean, we were just trying to get business right? So any business is business, I guess. But I was just a bit doubtful about the potential of selling our entire program to aliens for $700.
V: That was a difficult decision.
T: In the end that company closed.
G: What do you love/like about us?
V: Friendzone or the team?
G: Both. Go us first then you can go on to the team.
V: I guess I like that - there are three points - one is that we're friends. To me, work is one thing but the other aspect of work that means a lot to me is the friendships that you make. Working with people who have the same vision to make things happen is very important to me. I like that. And we share other parts of our lives with each other.
The other thing is that we...just do it. I don't know. I appreciate that a lot because my full-time work is a lot more structured, right? And I have to get 1000 approvals first before proceeding. So I like that we just try lor, based on what I think this works. I think that's fun, very adventurous. A lot more entrepreneurial than I expected myself to be.
And the last thing is just that we don't find what we're doing difficult, but the other two people appreciate it a lot. Like, I think, hosting or programming sessions is difficult. I think selling to people and connecting with partners is hella difficult or coming up with ideas is very difficult, but I don't think the finance part is very difficult. But we feel the same about one another's portfolios right? Yeah. I appreciate each of our skill sets and how they all come together to do good for the organisation. Okay, that's what I appreciate about us, and the organisation and one another.
I like that there's laughter. Right? Within us, with the group chat and a lot of nonsense chats.
G:
It's fun, right? It's really fun to work together. I never dread Friendzone meetings, that's such a beautiful thing!
V: Yeah, like they always say don't work with people that you know, but with us, that hasn't been a nightmare. It's been a great thing.
The Friendzone Team having an end-of-year get-together in Dec 2018!
T: I just wonder whether other small initiatives feel the same or different, but I will never know.
V: You can ask!
T: I also appreciate that we can just try new stuff very often and just see how it works. But I think that also means that it requires a group of people whose values are aligned, at least to some degree, before. It's easy to trust each other to just try new things, or suggest new things and then just try it out and see how it goes. At least like our values of wanting to create these communities are aligned. And for the ideas to emerge. It also means that we are actively hiring for people with these values, which helps us to get some of these ideas growing. The people we hire, they take initiative. Now we have found people whose values are aligned and take the initiative to do things to care for people and complement each other with their own skill sets and background experiences. So that's something I like. Of course, it's not completely the same. It's not all the same values.
G: Is it that we're all heading in the same direction?
T: Yeah, but also in what direction, right? So that's what I'm trying to articulate. What values? Is it community? Caring for people? Maybe over money, maybe on the scale of like, social and enterprise - we might by default tip a bit more towards 'social', then we think about the enterprise. Maybe that's a value. I mean, it's fine to go the other way, it's just that it's easier for a group of people to think the same way to work together.
G: I'm trying to think of something that y'all haven't said, but generally, agreement. I like how complementary we are, and that we recognize that and we encourage each other. And we can be very straightforward and candid with one another. I love that we are able to support each other.
I mean, some of the conversations that are significant that I remember are like, the time that I got scammed and didn’t tell anyone, and then I told Tham that I got scammed, and then he was able to give me very helpful advice. Or like, when I had my breakup - breakups - the two of you have always been there to help me process them. Just the ability for us to share our struggles and our skepticisms, and then to be able to support and encourage each other in it. It's something that I really like. I feel that we are united and in it together. I think it's such a precious thing to have. And because that's strong I feel that, it's like the core that things flow out of.
I guess what we have here does flow out into the rest of the organisation. And I think what will enable us to grow is that we take care of each other, and we take care of the team and then the team will take care of each other. And I guess I like that we care for each other and we take care of each other. I'm very, very grateful for that. Thanks :)
Last question. Okay sorry, two questions - part A and part B. What well-wishes do you want to give each other for the next one year. For us as co-founders, what would you like to say to future Grace, Valencia and Tham. Maybe three years from now. What would you like to tell three-years-from-now us, and what do you hope three-years-from-now us would look back and tell you.
T: That's so meta.
G: It was a question I heard at a Friendzone event!
So where do you hope for Friendzone to be 3 years from now? I have no idea where we are going to be but I hope that we will be in a place where we would be more settled and clear and established. I guess maybe in the way that like SGAG is an established company. It's not that we are not an established company but like a bigger and more household name for serving in the space of connecting people and community and fun events. I hope that we are still as united as we are now. And that the depth of our relationship will continue to be so strong.
What do you hope for us 3 years from now? We'll be 32
T: We'll still be in the youth range. I guess it will be interesting if we figured out how to start engaging. I mean, we are also growing older. I mean, we have grown older and it'll be interesting if we have a way to engage the older people. Yeah, I mean, I hope that we have found our way I mean, we are also navigating our own way out of the youth range and into the adulting, adult-er, not adultery, older adult, the older young adult, I hope that we will have discovered new ways of engaging people beyond the youth. I mean, I think three years, we might have only like, started establishing ourselves as names that people look to when they think about community. I hope that our conversations can still be relevant, honest and fresh at the same time. Yeah. Fresh at the same time. Yeah. Because I think what I learned from this, things can get tiring or boring very often. Yeah. How do conversations remain fresh? Yeah. And I mean, people get tired. That's a lesson that I learned from listening to many of these factors. People get tired, whether it's from burning out or from doing the same things. So I hope we have found something new and our conversations remain fresh.
G: What do you hope to say to us 3 years from now?
V: Hello, future Grace and Tham. This is Valencia who is 29 years old this year. I guess I would like to say that I hope we are still friends. And we're still very good friends. And we will still laugh together and not get tired of seeing each other. But we will enjoy each other's presence and enjoy the work that we create together as friends and I hope our meetings will still be enjoyable. And there will still be laughter in our meetings with the whole group. And people can still say stupid stuff and then we'll all laugh along in the chat. Okay, that's all I have to say. I hope that we appreciate each other also. Yeah, okay, that's all signing off. 29 year old Valencia.
G: This is what I hope 32 year old Grace will say like, us 3 years from now having this conversation but looking back like, if we were to say something, or kind of like you know, if we were to imagine saying something to ask you years ago. What would you tell yourself two years ago if I'm asking you a question, I'm just for context projecting in our church or not Saying something to us. Now. I will say that. Dear May 29, 29 year old us, I hope that you feel proud of how far you've come and that you feel very satisfied with your work and satisfied with and content with where you are now. I want to wish that we would just continue to grow together and journey together through the highs and lows that will definitely come and the challenges, hard decisions and easy decisions that we will have to make. But above all, that we would fight for each other and that we would continue to deepen the relationship that we have with one another. Y'all are in a good place, don't despise small beginnings. Yeah. That's what future Grace I hope would say to present us. Y'all may not be world famous right now and may never be, and that's cool too. Just stay faithful with what you're doing.
The Friendzone team at our Toa Payoh Event, July 2022
We hope this convo inspires and motivates you to pursue your passions too!
Thank you for being a part of our community - we hope you’ll continue to be for many years to come :)